No One Trains You For This

What do you do when two top physicians both expect your full attention and neither wants to share?

Lisa and Cindy break down one of the toughest, least-talked-about challenges in medical device sales: managing competing KOLs without burning out or losing credibility. This isn’t about time management, it's about leadership under pressure.

In this episode, they share real stories, hard-earned lessons, and the exact mindset elite reps use to stay trusted, respected, and in control without choosing sides. If you’ve ever felt stuck in the middle, this conversation is for you.

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• Fair Is Not Equal – Elite reps don’t divide time evenly; they meet each customer’s actual needs with intention and strategy.
• Leadership Under Pressure – This isn’t a loyalty issue, it's a defining leadership moment in your career.
• Set the Frame Early – Don’t let the loudest customer dictate your priorities; define expectations before conflict arises.
• Credibility Is the Currency – Mishandling competing customers doesn’t just cost business it costs trust.
• Never Be the Backup Plan – Customers remember how you make them feel, especially when you can’t be present.
• Close the Loop Fast – Follow-up, communication, and proactive planning keep competitors from sneaking in.
• CEO of Your Territory – High performers lead their business with clarity, confidence, and ownership.

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Transcript

Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies

Anneliese Rhodes: What do you do when Two physicians both expect your full attention and your number? Depends on both of them,

Cynthia Ficara: because here's the truth, this isn't about time management. It's about leadership under pressure.

Anneliese Rhodes: We see reps burnout over promise and quietly lose trust, trying to make everyone happy.

Cynthia Ficara: Today we're breaking down how elite reps handle competing customers without choosing sides and without losing credibility.

Anneliese Rhodes: So if you've ever felt stuck in the middle,

Cynthia Ficara: this episode is for you.

Anneliese Rhodes: Welcome everyone to another episode of Secrets and Medical Device Sales, brought to you by the Girls of Grit. And here we are, bringing y'all another fantastic every other week episode. Don't forget. And today's episode is another jam packed, chock full, awesome, fiery, great conversation between Cindy and I.

And I am really excited about this episode. Truly, I am.

Cynthia Ficara: This one is worth waiting two weeks for, so I hope you're driving your car. You're buckled up because you're gonna white knuckle on this steering wheel because it's true. This is what no one trains you for, right? Lisa?

The Leadership Moment No One Warns You About

Anneliese Rhodes: You are so right. This is not something that they talk about in sales.

They tell you to get multitudes of this, right? But nobody tells you the opposite of what happens when. You have two high stakes physicians that compete against one another. They're both VIPs. They're both KOLs, and they're both in your territory, and you call on both of them. How do you handle that?

Cynthia Ficara: Oh, see, I mean, I have totally been in this situation and it's, it's a very difficult position to be in.

It is, and again, that's what this podcast is about, right? We're here to help you guys help not make you feel alone struggling in this because we all have. So we really wanna take some time today to realize that in, in this situation, when you do have two customers that are pulling for your attention and.

You are stuck with, how do I manage this? Okay? Mm-hmm. And, and so many people can approach this the wrong way. They may over promise, they may play favorites. You know, you can't whisper favorites into each other's ear. And honestly, all that's gonna do is have you burn out. Trying to be the bestie of one and the bestie of other.

Because you know, let's face it, you can't really be everywhere. And the worst case scenario. We don't want you to lose credibility with one the other or both, because that's really, really detrimental. So as, as, as, as intense as this conversation is, it's really important. 'cause whether you're in this situation now and you stay medical device sales long enough, if this never happened to you, it's about to.

Anneliese Rhodes: Oh my gosh, absolutely. And you're so right. I mean, this is going to happen to everybody. It's happened to me. I know it's happened to you, so. Let's talk about it. What is this not, well, it's not a loyalty issue. It's not you trying to figure out, you know, who you're more loyal to. That's not what this is. You said this, it's not favoritism.

It's not about picking one doc over the other because ding, ding, ding. You will definitely lose them if you do that. It is truly a leadership moment. This is big boy, big girl stuff. Put on your big old panties and get ready. 'cause this is stepping into a new era of really leading your territory as well as overall leading yourself down a better road with both of these customers.

Cynthia Ficara: Exactly, because these customers, you know, you said it in in the introduction about them being true. We call 'em KOLs, key opinion leaders. These are smart, strong, very, very well known physicians. So along with that, at times comes ego, right? Mm-hmm. And if they know each other and they know you, you're gonna have competing egos.

So here you are in a situation, and now you have to manage competing egos. This situation. Also you have to manage time and it really becomes limited. You know? I mean, those are two big things. Egos and time. Yeah. Right. What else, Lisa would,

Anneliese Rhodes: well, each of 'em are gonna have high expectations, right? They both have high expectations of what you're gonna bring them and how do you, how do you handle that?

Right? How do you. Make them both feel like they're the only people in the room, because that's what they want. They expect that out of you. And oh, by the way, you got a quota. You have a revenue to bring in, and your company knows that you've got these big docs in your territory. They know the kind of revenue that they're gonna bring in, and they're counting on you to lead them both down that path to bring in that revenue for you.

Cynthia Ficara: I think I just wanna point this out and state it here. Now in the beginning, the mistake you make is treating both relationships identically. So the solution to that, which I think is nothing better than tying in the secret, behind the secrets medical device sales. So the solution and the secret in this episode is leading them both intentionally and transparently.

So that's kind of a heavy one. That's kind of a big one. But this is a really important episode. So we're gonna dive into that and we're gonna explain that better. And I think it just takes a minute to set the stage. I want you all to know that we have a solution for this. Yeah. And we're gonna teach it to you.

Anneliese Rhodes: Yeah. And you know, this can look like two docs in the same practice, Cindy. It can look like two doctors in two different cities, uh, each being their own KOL in their own specific town. It can even look like two docs. In two separate cities and you have both of them, and there are competing reps that have one or the other, and so those guys are getting their one-on-one attention from the one rep, and you've got both of them.

It can look any multitude of different ways, but I think what you said was so important. You know, you really have to be intentional when you're calling on each of these. People, guys and gals independently, because remember, we're all human and we're all different in our own unique ways, and you have to handle them in their own unique ways.

You cannot, and you will not be able to treat them exactly the same. And what does that look like? That doesn't even mean, you know, oh well I bring this guy coffee and I bring that girl girl tea. No, that's not what we're talking about here. You can't give them both equal amounts of your time, your access, and your attention.

You can't because number one, it's, that's not a reality because other things are gonna pull at you from time to time. Right. You may spend three days a week with this one V-I-P-K-O-L 'cause you've got cases with that person. Yeah. But those other two days doesn't mean you go and spend the rest of the time with the other person that may be not doing cases with you that week.

No. You've got other doctors in your territory that you also have to manage, so it becomes a real. Art of how to handle this situation. And this situation is not unique. This is gonna happen in almost every territory, I feel like, to some extent. But when you are high performers, you are operating at such a level that your customers are gonna expect that out of you no matter who they are.

Cynthia Ficara: I tell you, this one hits close to home. You know, I had, um, in one of my roles, two different physicians that both were, were very, um. There. There were two different KOLs and yeah, I, one knew that I was with the other one, and I remember I was literally standing in the control room of an or one time and phone rings and the case hadn't started yet.

So it wasn't like I was, you know, I mean, we were just kind of waiting. So downtime waiting case is about to start. The other physician wasn't even in the room yet and my phone rings and it's the doctor, the other one yelling at me that. You were supposed to be here. You send somebody in your place, you don't come here, I'm just gonna call on your competitor.

And you know, I remember that moment and I remember how that felt and I was really stuck. So. You know, Lisa and I talk about times that really affected us and times that made us realize how to pivot what we do, how to really manage this. Because if his threat held true, you know, my numbers relied on both of those, plus the rest of my territory.

Fair Doesn’t Mean Equal

But these two where I would say number one and number two, and then number two and number one, because they flip flopped all the time, that's how much I needed both of them. And I think that this conversation, um, hits home. And so we really want to talk about three high value takeaways. I, I just, I just want you to think about this like this.

So I wanna start with number one. I don't want people to be in the situation I've been in and not know what to do. So I think the number one value point that you need to understand when you have competing customers is you need to be fair and equal Now. Lisa already kind of touched on this. You know where most reps get this wrong is you don't try to give them both the same time access and attention.

So again, you all are high performers, so we want to speak to you at this next level. And what an elite rep understands is that when we say fair and equal. Fair is honoring each relationship to what the needs actually are. You're not dividing yourself. You're not cutting yourself in two and splitting. You are truly just honing in on the needs at hand.

Anneliese Rhodes: Well, and you know what you talking about that I can, I can feel that, Cindy, I really can. It's really hard when you get yelled at by a physician because you haven't been to their case and you've sent another person in your place to cover you because you are at the other physician's or that's a really.

Cynthia Ficara: And that was communicated ahead of time too, by the way.
Anneliese Rhodes: I'm sure it was. But it doesn't, it still doesn't make the situation any easier. Right. So, and, and we talk about, you know, being unique in our attention, but the truth is what happens when they both want you in their cases all the time. 'cause they do.

Right? So I think you also need to be open and honest with your physicians, like Cindy just said. And you're gonna need to lay the plan out ahead of time, especially if they're a type of physician that is counting on you to be in every single one of their cases. They know that you can't be, especially when you get double booked.

But I think it's important to balance that out. I mean, I just had a situation the other day where I had a physician that I haven't done a case with in a while. That was a little further away from home. Um, and then I had a physician that put on a case for the same exact day, same exact time, means the same amount to me.

And I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna have to send, you know, one of my clinicals in my place for this case with you. I'm so sorry. But I've got another physician that I need to go and attend to. I didn't tell that person who it was, I didn't say, you know, Hey, it's so and so, no idea where I was. But ahead of time I gave them the, the heads up that, Hey, I'm not gonna be able to support your case in this way.

But guess what? At the same time, I've got a dinner set up with that physician that I didn't get to go see a case or do a case with. I have a dinner coming up with him and I have a lunch coming up with him. So it's like. Okay. If you can't give them exactly what they're asking for at that moment, figure out another way to then service them so they don't feel like they're any less important than the p the physician that you just were with.

Cynthia Ficara: Oh, a hundred percent. And you know, one, one physician needs that day is not exactly what the other one may need. Like you said, you know, maybe it's strategic planning for one. Maybe it's like literally supporting a case that day. So just understanding that equal time, like really doesn't. Equal value because we set this in our secret, right?

That fair doesn't mean identical. We're not here to divide ourselves up and clone ourselves. Yep. Fair means intentional. Intentional. So one is intentional in the sale of what's going on, one customer versus the other. And it does take time to, to spell things out and you know, remember it. You could also look at it this way.

If they really want you there, then you know your value. So now you've gotta go build on that value. You gotta reestablish the trust. You gotta make sure they know and that communicate. What do you need to help? What can I do from afar? Is there anything I can help you with before you finish this case? I'm available on the phone.

I'm available via FaceTime, you know? Yeah. And, and then, then it comes down to they realize, okay, she still has my back.

When the Loudest Customer Isn’t the One Who Leaves

Anneliese Rhodes: Yeah, and I think that's, you know, kind of value point number two that we're talking about. Let's set the frame before they set it for you. And this is something that you and I were talking about is that usually the loudest customer always wins, right?

The guy or gal that got really upset at you, you end up going back to them and you're, you know, you give them all your time, but then the one that doesn't necessarily. Shout and as a little quieter, they quietly resent you and they quietly walk away. So again, you have to remember, you're not gonna be able to control every situation exactly the way that you, you know, you, you can't split yourself in two, it's just no multiplicity here on life.

So you have to define it before it happens. You have to be ahead of it. You have to know that if you are gonna get double booked, you're gonna let the other physician know, and then you're gonna make up for it another way. I mean, just the same thing that you said, Cindy. You know, I think it's a balancing act, but it's important that you don't try and over promise something to both of your physicians that you're never gonna be able to do.

Cynthia Ficara: You know, this, this point, this number two point that we're talking about is, is tough, but I think it puts us in the shoes that we've talked about before, how you know, as a high performer listening to this podcast, this is where you become CEO of your own business. Mm, great point. It begins. With owning what's most important at the time?

Like, okay, we work in a medical device industry. Okay. If you walked into an er, every decision in an ER is triaged. It's made by priority first. So because you're prioritizing a patient doesn't mean you're prioritizing a customer, and I think it's something that needs to be clear to your customers that.

My expertise is needed in this situation to help this patient. And I know you've got this on your patient, I'm gonna be there next week, you know, whatever. But sometimes it is hard to tell a customer a decision you have to make. But if you're confident in the decision you made, stick with it. Own it. And this is where the communication part comes into play.

And you know, I think it's really important that you set this up to proactively. Tell them when you're available. Like, I was needed because they needed me specifically for this patient, for this reason, and I gotta be there for the patients.

Anneliese Rhodes: I, I love that. And as, as you're talking, I'm thinking about so many different scenarios, you know, that I've had in the past where like, the physicians are so important, their time is so important to me.

Me getting the FaceTime is so important, excuse me. And then you build that relationship up and then you slowly allow them to know that, hey, I can't be there for everything. And so then they slowly allow you to have some of the somebody else in there. But then, then it becomes, well, am I now the backup plan?

Am I, who's more important than me? And how many times, Cindy, have you heard from your physicians, oh, are you going to work with Dr. So and so instead of me? And it's like, you're cheating on me. Exactly. You're cheating on me. They totally say that. You're like, what? Yes. No, but you know, it's like, so you have to be super smart in the way that you handle it.

And again, like you just. Said, you gotta be your CEO of your own career paths here. You have to define who you are, what you stand for with every single one of your customers. And, you know, language matters. Energy matters. I mean, it, it matters on how you tell your customers certain things. And if you're not gonna be there.

Follow up matters. You know these things are important. If you're not in that case, you are gonna go see that doctor the very next day, right? You're gonna make sure that you're back in front of them, bringing them other some, some sort of value. Very soon you're gonna close that loop quickly. You're not gonna allow them to feel like they're the backup plan that you're cheating on them because you just worked with Dr.
So-and-so down the road all week. It's important that they never feel like that 'cause they will quietly walk away. Absolutely.

Cynthia Ficara: Oh yeah. And you know, you don't lose trust by being unavailable, but you can, by being sloppy about how you are. Mm-hmm. Because I, I really believe that, you know, it, it kind of goes back into the value point that we mentioned before, how it, if you become CEO and take ownership, think about this.

What you wanna do is align yourself more as a partner. Yeah. You don't wanna be an employee. You are not. A puppet on a string because the value you bring is so profound. To make a great, especially if you're in an OR or, or any other way that you're working with your customer is your presence is very valuable.

Yeah. And I think that, um, you know. Becoming their, if they feel like they're a backup plan, then maybe you need to just take a second and realize, did I communicate the right way? Like Lisa said, language matters. Energy matters, but you know, you, you really have to like take a look at yourself and realize, did I approach this in the right manner?

And, and going back to my story. Story, okay, back to my story, I did set things up in the right manner. Mm-hmm. I did communicate and again. Every situation is you have to listen. Right? And so when this physician called all upset, I was kind of surprised. So instead of me just reacting, which I really wanted to, and I wanted to get defensive, and I wanted to be like, we talked about this, blah, blah, blah.

This is why I'm here. I just said, can you just tell me like what's going on in the OR now? Like what happened? Yeah. Why do you sense this is. This was so noticeable today, and it turned out that the person I sent in just wasn't communicating like they thought. I ended up having a discussion with them.

They had a back to back case, and the next one's better. He actually called me back and said it was better. And so, you know, at the heart of this, communication is always there, but even when you think you do it right. Which, which is why nobody ever wants to feel like a backup, but, you know, take it to the next level.
Yeah. And, and understand why do they feel that way right now?

Anneliese Rhodes: And what you are talking about. Something that's making me think about, okay, these situations do arise and we do have to call on our teammates to help us out, you know, clinical support partners, whatever it is. So I'm thinking about this. So how do you set it up to where they don't feel like the backup plan?

You're not letting them down. You make sure you introduce these teammates early on into the relationship when you're building it. You know how many times Cindy, have you brought in people when you don't need it, but you bring them in? So that they can meet your customer, they can be can, they can begin their own relationship with that customer so that when you get called, because you will, you're a high performer, you're going to be in other places, you can easily push in the new clinical, the new partner and say, Hey, Dr.

Smith, remember Angela that came with me two weeks ago when she was here last week? Today she's gonna cover your case for you. You, you know her, she's got your number. You know, you over communicate and you make sure that they never feel like they're second place when you're having to choose a different customer over them.

You know? And I, and I think that's so important. It's, and, and that can be in any situation. And when you're in a boardroom or you run your own company and you have a team of people underneath you, they all need to be handling your top-notch customers like they're their own, you know? And everybody should always have their needs met.

Cynthia Ficara: And you know, Lisa, that's literally following our secret. That's being intentional. You know, because sometimes you are just planting seeds for the future. Maybe that moment they weren't needed at the case, but it's very intentional and strategic. Yes. To position them. Yes. And to know them. To understand that they are an extension of you.

They still have your support. They can understand that maybe the two, like you and this customer went through the case and you know, here's something that, um. I did not do with this physician. I would say if I had to go back, because again, every moment is a learning moment, I thought communicating of what I was doing and why was important.

Um, but what I would've done is taken the time, if he had the time to go through a plan for the case with him, with me,

Anneliese Rhodes: and just go through and say,

Cynthia Ficara: this is what we're gonna do. This is what we have. That's a

Anneliese Rhodes: great point, Cindy.

Cynthia Ficara: Physically go there and then like I, I am handing this off with, you know, uh, rolling out the red carpet for you.
And I think in hindsight, what I did on that specific incidents is, yeah, I just didn't close the loop all the way. Yeah. I just, I, I did somewhat and I thought I did.
Managing KOLs Without Losing Trust

Anneliese Rhodes: That was, that's a great point. That's a great point. I really like that. And I think we've talked, you know, all through this episode about what things are at at stake.

Obviously a physician leaving you is a, is the biggest part, right? Your competitors getting in there, getting those cases and sometimes that actually. Um, can happen. What's the word? I'm transiently happen. Yeah, right? Yeah. So like you are spending more time with another KOL and a city away or down the road or wherever it is, another hospital, but you still have this relationship with this good K-O-L-V-I-P doc.

But you haven't been with them in a while. Well, transiently, you're gonna have to expect the competition's gonna come in and they're gonna grab cases when you're not there. So that's something that you need to be mindful of. That's that closing of the loop that you're talking about, Cindy, whether it's to discuss the next case, put up another lunch, make sure you're still in their face.

This is a very busy job, but that's why we're in it, right? I mean, it's a high stressful job, but these are, these are KOLs that we're handling, so they expect that kind of attention. And when you start to let that slip. That's when competition comes in and steals them from you. And if you allow a relationship to get to a point with a big KOL or VIP customer that you've allowed to slide by too much.

It becomes almost impossible to rebuild that. I'm not saying it's impossible, but because they felt left behind, ignored, they're not your priority anymore. They will easily slip into a new relationship with your competitor and not think twice about it. Oh, so it's so important.

Cynthia Ficara: A hundred. Percent. Yeah. What you just said is a hidden cost, Lisa.
A hundred percent. So when you mishandle these competing customers, it, it is not so much the business that you lose, it's your credibility. Yeah. And that's what you're speaking to. It is impossible to rebuild. Yeah. And I'm telling you, it. Credibility is the real currency in a high stake sales situation.

And I agree. When you have two competing customers like this, you've gotta maintain it. Yeah. So, so I really, really, really hope that you've listened today that you're still buckled in and your seatbelt can, your, your knuckles can relax. They're not so white. And, and I just want you to remember three. High value takeaways when it comes to being in the middle of two, competing are really, really big customers that you need both.

Value is, is number one I talked about as a value point is you need to be fair but not equal. Like fair and equal aren't the same thing. Yeah. But I It's important to know that number two is really setting the frame before it's set for you. Yeah. And think.
Anneliese Rhodes: Set the stage that's close the loop, set the stage, close the loop over, prepare, you know, be 10 steps ahead of things like we were talking about earlier.

If you know you're not gonna be in that case with that physician like you just mentioned, Cindy, bring the plan to them ahead of time. Talk about steps that you're gonna do a week from now. J make them feel important because you're not gonna be there. That is so important.

Cynthia Ficara: And then number three, never let one customer feel like a backup plan.

Yes. You know, people always say it's, they don't remember what you say, but they remember how you feel. Yeah. This is so, so true in this, in this area. So I, I'm excited we had the opportunity to have this conversation today. I really am too, Lisa.

Anneliese Rhodes: Me too, me too. I mean, I'm not sure, did we talk, we didn't even talk about a closed call to action, but I feel like, I feel like the call to action for me, if I was listening to this episode would be to identify those really important customers that are in my territory right now and ask myself, am I giving them the attention that they deserve in the ways that they deserve it?

And if I am not. Where do I need to close the loop? Who do I need to circle back with right now today? Let me make sure that I'm on top of them because I don't want my competitor sneaking in,

Cynthia Ficara: and that absolutely defines a way we can end this conversation. That you don't need to choose sides. You just need to choose leadership.
Thanks for listening, everyone.